Can I Be Serious For a Moment?
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This post was difficult to write, harder to publish and I still want to rip it down. If you are triggered by discussions or descriptions of rape or rape apologism, please do not read on or click on any of the links in this post.
A long time ago, someone I knew who I thought was my friend but who was ultimately a predatory bastard decided that it would be perfectly acceptable to try and get me drunk and then do inappropriate things to my prone body. While he didn’t succeed in going all the way (I wasn’t so drunk or prone that I couldn’t smash him over the head with a Roget’s Thesaurus), he certainly succeeded in leaving me with a headful of memories that to this day, I can’t fully shake.
I was young and at the time, I thought the following:
- It was all my fault because we were cool and perhaps I had led him on
- It was all my fault because I had drunk the Malibu and coke willingly
- I couldn’t really say anything because in my eyes, it wasn’t technically rape
- I couldn’t really say anything because everyone knew I had a crush on him
- I couldn’t really say anything because nobody would believe me
So I didn’t say anything. But I guess dude didn’t take too well to being fought off with a giant book because he sure as hell said things. He told people a different version of what happened and that version, the one that didn’t come with bruised skin and pain where there shouldn’t be was the one that went down as the truth. I heard inklings of him going on to the same thing (and worse) to a number of other girls before thankfully; I didn’t have to see his face daily any more.
Until a few years later when he appeared on Facebook and proceeded to send me friendly messages and tales of yore like nothing at all had happened. He seemed genuinely shocked by my calling him out on his reprehensible behaviour and came back time and time again to tell me how he might have been an impish youth but he had “grown up” and was “a great guy”.
Allow me a second to puke.
It’s no secret that rape apologists are prevalent in our society. Those who would have you believe that victims simply need to “not get drunk” or “not wear provocative clothing” and this will magically solve the problem. Those who think that the blame lies ANYWHERE else than with the perpetrator. Those who think that because a small portion of reported rapes turn out to be false, that there aren’t hundreds of thousands of real victims many of whom remain silent. It’s one thing to know about this, it’s another to see it flung in your face repeatedly.
I didn’t want to write about Daniel Tosh and that whole controversy because every time I tried to articulate my feelings on the subject, all I could manage was “fuck him, fuck his followers and fuck the fools that think this is about heckling or free speech,” and so I avoided it. But then this thread popped up on Reddit and after I had my minor meltdown, I sort of lost the will to live a little.
So let me break it down for the folks on the thread and otherwise who are lauding this collection of predators for being “brave” enough to fess up to their crimes…on a Reddit post:
- There is nothing brave about the cowardly act of anonymously admitting (unprosecuted) serial rape and then running off into the ether.
- The cries of “I have changed” and “it was so long ago” are moot. You committed multiple crimes and didn’t even have the decency to apologise to the victims let alone accept the sanctions required by the law.
- Many of the rapists on the thread have admitted to being in relationships or marriages where their significant others know nothing of their history of rape and sexual assault…and this is alright by them.
- “I’m a nice guy/girl”. No you are not. You play the part of a nice guy or girl and then you rape/raped people.
- There is no such thing as “over shaming” serial rapists. If this is not an act over which you should feel nothing but shame and revulsion for your actions then someone tell me what is.
- The only thing that could possibly be applauded here is if the offenders turned themselves in, sought help and began trying to apologise to their victims. That is all. Period.
While I think that threads like this are useful in educating men and women alike in the reality of serious sex crimes and while I think that discussions about rape should be had where the victims are free of stigma, I just can’t stomach the number of positive reactions to what boils down to bragging about how many people you raped and how free and “changed” you are now despite your apparent lack of remorse and refusal to face the consequences of your crimes.
We should be providing more support to the victims; fostering a community of positivity for those who have gone through something as horrific as rape. Anything that praises a rapist for his acts or admitting his acts without context of prosecution or apology is doing it wrong. Victims feel bad enough without having to witness people patting attackers on the back for their “bravery”. Seriously, is common sense so rare these days?
I know that there is a chance that these posts are the work of trolls and if that is the case, how much more fucked up that this is what you’d choose as your medium of choice for attention.
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Stereo. 20-something aspiring bon vivant. London based. Exceptionally Nigerian. Partial to snark. My default setting is "wry". Jeans and blazers are my uniform. Landlady. Speed reader, tuneless singer, hoarder of words, drinker of Schloer; I am suspicious of most people, have zero tolerance for tomfoolery, have a vast DVD collection, worship at the altar of Al Green, own too many bottles of nail polish, have small eyes, small ears and giant hair and owe approximately 86% of my awesome to the Parents Typewriter.
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The Scintilla Project
a blog comment is not the place for me to express my sorrow for your own story, so i endeavor to do that at another point. suffice to say, you know what those words will probably be, they will involve a lot of “oh my god” and “i am so sorry” and “you never deserved that” and saying something as small as “HUGS OVER THE INTERNET” seems…inappropriate, almost.
i have to say that i was fascinated by the reddit thread, because it actually showed a really wide variety of situations, some that i wouldn’t even consider rape (“she was passed out and i went to go look down her shirt but felt disgusted and decided not to, cause wow, that’s wrong”), and the ONE of the obviously sociopathic, american psycho dude that had a whole system down. and then, everything in between. i thought it was actually an exercise in education, because i have known many people who would have said to several of those situations, no, that wasn’t rape, WHEN YES IT WAS AND HERE IS THE PERPETRATOR ADMITTING IT. while i agree that they don’t deserve any congratulations for the bravery or pats on the back at ANY point, the majority of the stories i read expressed remorse and i was at the very least glad to see that. i think i saw the thread really late and all of the “you’re so brave!” comments had been downvoted, and i LACK the patience to expand every reddit thread to completion, so i did not see them, and i’m glad they seem to have gotten downvoted.
daniel tosh, god, i can’t. honestly, i’m not into very much comedy at all. i feel like comedy movies have gone the way of stupid and disgusting, sitcoms have just gotten boring, and standup is mostly offensive shit from ALL across the spectrum. it’s mostly chauvinistic and racist at the very least. it’s not an issue of free speech, it’s an issue of rape culture.
i love you, and your thoughts, as always.
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Stereo Reply:
August 1st, 2012 at 10:27
The Reddit thread was like a particularly disturbing black hole to me. At first I thought it was just that one poster who detailed his acts and seemed very stoic about what had happened while heavily peppering his accounts with how much of a good guy he now was and how changed he was. It was horrible. And yes, I spent hours reading through many of the comments and stories before it got too much and the responses became too many to wade through.
There were many like you described that bordered on rape/sexual assault but didn’t actually go that far but there were also a lot of them that were simply disgusting to read. The thing that saddens me is that remorse means nothing when you have not faced the consequences of your actions. Sex offenders can cry “I’m sorry” all they want but I won’t buy it if they haven’t made any sort of amends for what they have put their victims through. I think that is why the thread got me so angry.
I think you put it perfectly in your comment about Daniel Tosh. It is about rape culture. Free speech has nothing to do with it. At all.
And thank you for your kind words. I know it’s difficult as hell to know what if anything to say in these situations but you know me and I know you and I know exactly what’s in your heart for me and that is enough ♥
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Rape isn’t funny. Not ever.
People do change. Part of that change and growth is contrition and accepting of consequences. Without those, saying you’ve grown and changed makes as much sense a making Marlboro the Official Cigarette of Cancer…
I admire your willingness to talk about such a personal and horrible event in your life so openly.
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Stereo Reply:
August 1st, 2012 at 10:30
EXACTLY. It’s so basic that it’s astounding how so many people fail to grasp this simple ass concept.
This was a very hard post to write but now that it is done, I feel at least a little relief. Thanks for reading.
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too, too many people have this sort of trauma in their pasts, and my heart breaks for you. it’s just so wrong, and words aren’t good enough to express that.
the reddit thing depressed me. the idea of it was a noble one, something that pleases my lawyer self: an attempt to figure out the whats and the whys to hopefully stop this stuff from happening. but it inevitably devolved into exactly what you described. shocking, sad, depraved indifference to suffering and, in some cases, outright celebration of the worst violation possible. god.
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Stereo Reply:
August 1st, 2012 at 11:00
The sentiment behind your words is enough. Thank you so much for reading and commenting.
I too was hoping that there would be a healthy discussion/study into the reasons behind certain acts. But I guess I am going to have to look elsewhere because what I found there was shocking at best and absolutely disgusting at worst. It just made me sad. Especially when I read the account where the perpetrator was “somewhat remorseful” for his acts. Really? GTFO.
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The only thing common about common sense is just how uncommon it actually is.
I am so very sorry that you went through that. Thank you for being strong enough to share your soul, because I know that does not come easily. I’m proud of you for decking him with Roget’s Thesaurus. But I’m still sorry that you had to resort to that.
I was and still am appalled that anyone would think it funny to joke about rape. That anyone would think it funny and acceptable to threaten to rape someone for walking out during a joke about rape. It rends my soul to know that we as a society has progressed from blaming the victim to making them the butt of a joke.
I will stand with you in the solidarity of this. It is not right. It is not okay. It is not funny. And people who either commit the act or tell the joke are not nice or good or funny people. They are sad, pitiful shells of humanity.
(((Hugs))) to you my friend.
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Stereo Reply:
August 1st, 2012 at 11:06
“Sad, pitiful shells of humanity” might be the best thing I have heard today.
I did my best not to get into the whole Daniel Tosh thing because it makes me see red. I don’t agree with what he said but at the same time I will defend his right to be an ignorant idiot out loud. The whole Reddit thing just got me depressed, angry and then so very sad that people were actually like “oh hey, you raped a bunch of people but you’re so BRAVE for admitting it anonymously on this internet thread.” I was like is this actually what life has become? So sad.
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I almost didn’t respond to this because I have an idea you won’t like what I have to say, or some of it anyway, I looked to see if I had your email address so I could do this on a more personal level, but alas I do not. So here I am.
I didn’t read the Reddit post; I read an article about it in which the author talked about many of the things you talk about here and many of the things Dominique mentioned in her comment. Rape is deplorable, and these men, whether they are being honest about the things they admitted to or are just trolls looking for a few minutes of internet stardom, deserve to be treated as the pigs that they are. There is in no way any excuse to force yourself upon anyone; whether it be the way they dress, or talk, the way in which they carry themselves, or even if it seemed as though sex was a certainty right up until they decided it wasn’t. No means no, or as I read in the article, “Only yes means yes.” As a man in the world today I find it hard to believe that the whole “slut” defense is even still an acceptable way to defend men who have forced themselves on someone else.
I agree that anyone willing to forgive even one instance of rape for nothing more than an apology is foolish, these men deserve to be prosecuted; hell, some of them deserve to be castrated and anyone who says that that is cruel and unusual punishment needs to look into the eyes of a rape victim and explain to them how what they endured isn’t.
But the part where I do not agree, and the part in which you will probably stop reading this here:
Although I do not agree with what Daniel Tosh said, I will fight for his right to say it with my very last breath. It was crass and rude, and more than a little offensive, but I believe that he has to be allowed his first amendment right to say it. Do I think that rape jokes will cause people to think that it is okay to rape others? NO, no more than racist jokes make people racist, or sexist jokes make us sexist. How many female comics walk on stage and tell jokes about their boyfriend and how stupid he is when he is watching sports, or how mindless he becomes in the face of cleavage? They are sexist jokes after all, and we all laugh and move on. Never really giving credence to them because they are admittedly mild in the face of a rape joke.
Do I think it was a wise choice for him to say these things on stage, or in any public forum? NO, but I do not believe it should mean there should be anything more than people turning their backs on him in the same way they turn off his show, or refuse to buy tickets to his show. To say he shouldn’t be allowed to say these things is opening up a can of worms I hope we never have to face.
H.L. Mencken wrote “The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.” You see, if we ask for the powers that be to make it against the rules for him to say such things, what else will be outlawed? Will it become illegal to say that we don’t like the decisions of the President, or Prime Minister in your case? Freedom of Speech is very important, one of the most important afforded to us by the first amendment, it gives us the right to stand up and shout that we don’t like the way we’re being treated, that we deserve more, or less. In China people are still being rounded up and imprisoned for speaking out, and to think that that could never happen here is simply foolish.
I do not condone what he said, but I think that him saying it is a necessary evil.
I am sorry for what happened to you and any other woman that has suffered through this or worse, and I know that his words probably had a little extra sting to all of you, and for that I am also sorry, but I cannot agree that he, and others like him, should be silenced.
Doesn’t mean I don’t love you.
J
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Stereo Reply:
August 1st, 2012 at 10:53
Thanks for your comment, Jason.
I can’t help but feel you’ve completely missed the point of this post as it was not about Daniel Tosh and even though I mentioned him, I also mentioned how that situation was not about issues of free speech. But since you spoke about it, I’ll respond.
There is no excusing what Tosh said. There is no justification for him and others that make light of rape or sexual assault. That is exactly what rape culture is all about. Laughing and joking about something may not, like you said, cause people to run out and commit the act, but it does serve to make it less serious, to make it a “laughable” topic.
That being said, Tosh and every other person who thinks it’s acceptable can joke about rape as much as they want to in public forums or otherwise – it’s their right to do so. And I, like so many others, will continue to shame the hell out of them, because it is MY right to do so. They can say whatever they want to say and I will call them on it every single time.
If you want to have a conversation about it, there’s a contact link in the navigation.
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I don’t have much to say except to stand up and applaud your bravery, your talent, your determination and your general badassery. Free speech is too often used as an excuse for miscreants and ignoramuses to talk nonsense and it seems to be eroding common sense by massive degrees!
Rape and sexual assault are crimes. They destroy lives. They rob their victims of their innocence and self-worth. It is NEVER a joke. If someone can be arrested for sending abusive texts on Twitter, why can’t the same be applied to those only talent is to further cause mental pain and anguish to victims of sexual crimes?
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Stereo Reply:
August 1st, 2012 at 12:20
I mean I will defend the right to free speech as I think it’s important but I will never hold my tongue when calling someone out on their ignorance. Say whatever the hell it is you want to say but accept the backlash that comes with your misguided attempts at humour, that is my stance on the whole Tosh debacle. I was actually going to comment about Twitter and abusive tweets but I don’t think that’s the point here. I think the point is that rapists and rape apologists need not to be applauded for their actions or admitting their actions to a thread full of strangers if they have not suffered the consequences for their crimes.
Can you tell I get upset about this? Lol.
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What you went through was terrible. For a large part, people are assholes. I hope, someday, this part of you can heal over some. Love.
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Stereo Reply:
August 1st, 2012 at 12:22
People are assholes. Sometimes, I just have to remember that.
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I went through something similar, and the only people who knew about it were my then-close friends the day after it happened. And that was when I blamed myself for it, so I tried to turn it into a joke. So my friends did, too, by playfully calling me a slut afterwards. I don’t think I could ever blog about it, but I really appreciate the fact that you did. I’m just sorry that you had to experience that. The Reddit thread, though… bone-chilling.
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Stereo Reply:
August 1st, 2012 at 11:11
Damn, that is horrible. I am so sorry you went through that and I completely understand you not wanting to blog about it. It took me days to write this post and then longer to hit publish and even then, I left out all of the details and have remained pretty vague about the timings because that is as much as I could manage.
If you ever want to talk about it, please let me know. Even if I just listen, I’d be happy to do so.
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It is too bad that you didn’t speak up when you did, and a damn shame that these societal factors made you question your right to stand up for yourself. No one should have that right taken away from them – by another person, or by what they internalize from their surroundings.
I really hope that the ongoing dialogue (and it may be generous to call it a dialogue, as some people on both sides of the divide are stuck in their echo chambers) leads to more talking about people’s experiences. As ugly as the Reddit thread sounds – I’ve not read it, but have read “highlights” of it – it is potentially useful to see the mindset of the offenders.
And let me say – that mindset is ugly. It especially triggers my philosophy gland regarding agency. So many of them have said of the rape “It’s not my fault, I/she/we _____.” Denying their own agency in what happened and attributing the blame somewhere else.
BUT, they are all too eager to reclaim their agency again when they tell us how they have later become a “nice guy”. Wow! It doesn’t work that way. By extension, if you want to claim credit for being a nice guy now… what must you have been back then? That’s right: an ugly, violent, criminal rapist fuck. Notice how it doesn’t work the other way around: these people don’t want to claim that, due to something out of their control, they have stopped raping.
These people were not properly educated because we largely do not expect it of young men, or men in general, to manage their emotions and respect others in this basic way. There is a huge void in the emotional education of men between “respect your superiors”, “don’t cry” [what a load of crap] and “don’t take shit from anybody”. I honestly believe that men’s emotions work somewhat differently than women’s*, but that does not excuse men from basic emotional competence. It is our duty to accept nothing less from the men we interact with. Maybe then, we’ll see change.
So yes, I agree with you – these guys aren’t fucking heroes. We can at least hope their testimonies will be useful to furthering the conversation. Parting shot: No one is “asking for it” UNLESS THEY ARE VERBALLY ASKING FOR IT.
*No, I don’t buy into the “Women are emotional, men are rational” bullocks. Men are perhaps more emotional because of the lack of emotional education – but we men are quick to mask it with righteous indignation or indifference, in the US at least.
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It is sad and scary how many women immediately come up with all of the reasons it’s our fault when something terrible happens like that. I am so sorry you went through that when you were younger. And the detail about you smashing him with a Thesaurus: that is EXACTLY what your weapon of choice should be, because you are a smart, smart woman and a super-talented writer, as made clear by this post.
I won’t click on any links so I don’t know what’s up with the Reddit thread; it sounds awful and if people think that everything’s OK now that they’ve gone and confessed on an anonymous thread online, that’s just something I don’t even want to know about.
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First, I am so terribly sorry that you experienced this.
It’s terrible that we live in a world where this is commonplace, and where it is just as commonplace for the survivor of the assault; the rape; the attack; the violation (I hate mincing words about what it is- let’s call it. No bullshit pussyfooting around it) to internalise blame, to search within themselves and wonder, ‘did I do something?’ ‘is it my fault?. It’s absolutely unacceptable that our societies- across geography, class, any strata you can think of- constantly reiterate and reinforce these ideas; and that so much of it goes unchallenged.
I have mixed, mixed feelings about the whole Reddit thread. I think the fucking rape apologists on the damn board should be slapped seventy one ways to Christmas and back. Yet, I think it was an interesting insight into the mindset of these perpetrators- they challenged (however inadvertently) some theories of rape (it’s only about power). I think, for us to move forward on actually addressing rape and rape culture, we have to know what we’re dealing with.. and now, we have some insight to corroborate our assumptions. That’s the positive stuff I can find to say about this Reddit thread. The ‘what the fuck is this fresh load of shite?’ part of my reaction is due to the unashamed, unapologetic rape confessions on that board; and the reactions to them. I’m not sure what upsets me more- the confessions or the subsequent, ‘heh heh, yeah man. chest bump!’ kind of responses. In essence: you are all a disgrace to humanity and I want to kick you all in the fucking bollocks.
On the whole Daniel Tosh malarkey: y’know, I get it. I get that humour is a space for controversy; where we can have dialogue and move beyond something. I use it all the time when I’m doing reconciliation work within post-conflict groups. I get it. Humour is a powerful tool. But humour is just as powerful when it hurts, when it ridicules, when it perpetrates harm. And that’s what this is about- it isn’t just some fantasy fucking haha joke in a vacuum. The joke comes within a very specific culture that mainly targets 50% of the world’s population: women. It comes within a rape culture- a culture where it isn’t just OK to joke about rape, it’s OK to joke about actually committing sexual violence, where it’s OK to demean experiences of rape & dismiss them as ‘exaggeration’, where it’s OK to say ‘you probably asked for it’ and not have it be questioned.
See, rape culture is something that most of us are living with in our everydays- it isn’t about whether his stupid joke is going to make people go out there and rape others, it’s about whether his stupid joke continues to extend the life of this fucked up rape culture we live in. It’s about whether when someone turns to you and says, ‘I don’t appreciate rape jokes because it’s an all too real fear for me’; you look at them and say ‘Don’t be such a fucking baby about it’. That’s rape culture. That’s what this fucking mess with Daniel Tosh does: it normalises rape culture. It makes it OK that women live in fear, that women internalise blame, that women’s claims are dismissed, that women live with shame and guilt and pain and anger for someone else’s wrongs against them. And that shite is unacceptable.
I’m all for free speech- bring it on. I’m also all for telling you you’re a privileged pillock living off the inherited bullshit reign of patriarchy.
p.s. I was angry. I apologise for the potty mouth.
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I’m glad you wrote this. Glad you posted it. And so GLAD that you didn’t delete it. It was brave of you and obviously helpful to more than one person.
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i have no words beyond you are amazing. thank you for this post
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I’m sorry for what you went through. Some Reddit threads and most of the CNN comment threads are fairly indicative of how rampant misogyny is. You don’t have to look much further than what happened to Anita Sarkeesian.
I read something a while ago that was the best response I’ve read to Daniel Tosh (and is so named). It tackles the issue of free speech and rape so eloquently:
http://austin.culturemap.com/newsdetail/07-12-12-14-37-the-best-response-weve-heard-to-daniel-toshs-misquoted-rape-jokes/
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Great post! I actually wrote something similar a couple minutes ago as I just completed training to become a Sexual Assault Advocate and I found myself struggling as well. I struggle a lot with trying to help people- mainly women- protect themselves from sexual assault while not trying to victim blame. In the end, I just want to scream: JUST DON’T RAPE! But unfortunately, in our society it is simply just the reality that we deal with.
I would suggest a great book called “Crash into me” by Liz Socurro. Fantastic read about one woman’s journey for justice in her sexual assault and she had a similar scenario to yours in which her assailant had emailed her several years after her attack.
Anyways, love this post and definitely a new follower here.
-Jessica
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